Friday, January 30, 2009

Erdovan, Davos, and Dealing with Israel


This mornings Stratfor Podcast is titled "Erdovan's Davos Walkout Lays Down the Marker". I haven't heard it yet (hoping to, on the exercise machine), but just from that title, you can see one thing: the recognition of Israel has been anathema in the Muslim world, but if you had wondered if any good could ever come out of recognizing them, this is it. The fact that Turkey is seen in the Western World as a "moderate" Muslim state and has respect for being one of very few Muslim states to recognize Israel gives Erdogan's action much more weight than, say, a Pakistani or Indonesian leader doing the same. I am not saying Pakistan should up and recognize Israel, but it's something for Pakistanis to think about in the debate of whether and when to think about "normalizing" relations.

Folks not related to Pakistan might ask: Why Pakistan, specifically? Why not Saudi Arabia, or Indonesia? Well, Pakistan IS the 2nd largest Muslim nation in the world--and it's not Arab, and it's the only nuclear power in the Muslim world. Not to mention that ideologically and socially, it's a center of much that happens and affects the rest of the world--both Muslim and otherwise. This IS the "most dangerous country in the world" if we are to believe the conventional wisdom in the West; this is the "training ground of terrorists", no? Of course, it is a country I identify with (together with the US and Nigeria), and therefore it's my job to raise the issue in its context; others can chime in with the view from their corner of the globe.

2 comments:

Anonymous said...

Pakistan is, beyond what the west world thinks it is. It is a spiritual place with amazing culture. In my opinion, each country has a great gift that it can give to the world, whether it's nature and tourism or temples to pray in to science/space centers and so on. Turkey is a great place to travel, as I heard.

I don't know much about Turkey, as a state, but I do know that what they did and still are doing with the Kurdish people, is not "better" than what Israel is doing with the Gazans.

To claim that it is good or bad is a different subject, but what ever it is, it happens in the same place, where each state has its own minorities, so to come and burst out like that seems to be not the thing a PM of a big country wants do. Especially if he went all the way to recognize Israel and even try to negotiate between the Syrian clown and the Israeli lest popular PM in the Israeli history. He did that because he gains from that, obviously.

In my opinion, one of the things that he is getting from that is the ability to keep on preventing from the Kurdish to have their own country. Think about it, if the Israelis give a country to the Palestinians, other minorities will want to have the same thing! So, is it a good thing? Most of the people think that all the minorities should have their own country, but is it good for the world? Is it good that most of the countries are still dominated by religions? Or is it even close to logical that old people with long beards and something on their heads will choose to implement the holy books as the truth in these evolving countries? Were does it take us? Actually for the last question I do have an answer... It takes us to exactly where we are at now, unfortunately! If you like it, stay there, if not either fight it in a reasonable way (meaning - not violent) or move to America.

Back to your article, It seemed that Ardugan got offended from the fact that the Israeli president received more respect/time from the people around and took it personally, thus leaving in such a childish way blaming it on the dead children. By blaming on the dead children he literally reinforces the Hamas, which, btw, IS the responsible for the death of the children Ardugan was talking about, but this is too a different stroy... I can understand him since he has to show his people that he is with them and on “their side” no matter if they are right or not. He wants to change the term Terror in the region... So I guess he will need to do a house checking and see where was his army few good months ago close and pass the border with Iraq.
So, generally, to me it seems that this guy is nothing but a politician and someone that tries to make the right people feel good about him and what better for that than use the Israeli anathema? It's like the little child in the kindergarden that all the other children are laughing at him because he is different and then comes the big child (usually the fat one) and, while the child is on the ground bleeding from the previous session, he is giving him the last stroke. And... what better than do it on TV when the entire world is watching. Who is the men now? And, yes, it's some food for thinking. Maybe Israel is NOT the aggressive one and ALL that is does is to defend itself and on the same time trying to get last grip over what once used to be its entire country. Maybe the foreign aggressiveness makes the Israeli smallest country in teh region, become violent since it has to learn the rules of the game... So, what ever one thinks about a specific country, he should rethink if he has the courage because on the other side there are ALWAYS people who think just like him, but with different terms of saying that.

As for the existence of Israel. As the Arab / Muslim world/people is stubborn, the Israeli/Jewish IS.
So, lets say that all the Muslim countries decide, like in the past, to diminish Israel and wipe it off the map. And lets say that the Jewish people were expelled again from their country and the country is empty and there are only Muslims and few Jews that will accept any sovereignty (like the ones in Iran today). This is a dream of many millions of people right now on this planet, but the thing they do not understand is that the Jewish people can be more F*&^%$@ up than the most extremist and fanatic Muslim guys. And after their land will be taken again they will fight again to gain it. They will do it with bombing and with murdering people and I am sure they will find what else to do and will take, just like the Muslims, their time until the rest of time, or at least 2,000 years more. This is simply because their bible tells them to do so, just like the Muslim's bible or the Christian's. I am sorry to tell but the people of the monotheism failed to look at the bright side of life and their religion and scripts, they just missed few chapters. Do you wish to see this endless cycle of violence rolling? The Jews and the Muslims are apparently decedents of the same father and they will act the same what ever you do, and as you know you cannot eliminate hope, but you can bring new hope to cover the last one ten times if you just educate people (again, not religious studies as the main ones).

So, what is the solution? Very simple, freeze all borders as they are now first. Second let the ones who claim independence to have their own sub state thing, what ever it will be, when it is completing and helping the bigger state it is in rather than sneaking around the bush waiting for a moment to gain more. ALL the refugees from all the region should have their own lands. There are enough lands out there and there is no reason that refugees will not get settled and create new places that are productive and are aligned with the new rules of planet earth, like Do Not Harm The Environment...

No one needs to get hurt from this move. Even the governments will earn more when their citizens have higher income and are more happy.

This should be established on the people governing (democracy), rather than this or that family that holds the reins (very close to the chest).

It's about time that the Arab world will snap out of its darkness and bring the light to the people around the world and to be an example for all other beings.

Andrew Brehm said...

"And after their [Jews] land will be taken again they will fight again to gain it. They will do it with bombing and with murdering people"

No, they won't. They will likely try to buy the land again, settle there again, and be attacked again. But at some point (and it might be now) the Jews will be to tough to be murdered and will stay on their land.